E&OE TRANSCRIPT

RADIO INTERVIEW

2CC CANBERRA BREAKFAST

TUESDAY, 1 DECEMBER 2020 

SUBJECTS: Australia-China relationship; JobKeeper figures; home builder scheme.

ROD HENSHAW, HOST: That's David Smith, Labor member for Bean and Zed Seselja, ACT Liberal senator and Assistant Minister for Finance, Charities and Electoral Matters. There you go, how's that for a wrap? That's one hell of an introduction to you, isn't it? I guess. David, good morning.

DAVID SMITH, MEMBER FOR BEAN: Good morning, Rod

HENSHAW: Good morning, Zed.

ZED, SESELJA LIBERAL SENATOR FOR THE ACT: Good morning, Rod, good morning, Dave.

SMITH: Morning, Zed.

HENSHAW: Okay, let's start on that, because it's the most topical thing of the morning, I suppose it has been for the last 24 hours. This is damn disgusting. This is damn disgusting. Now, the prime minister is demanding an apology. Yeah, good luck with that—after that post with the falsified image. What was your reaction when you saw it, Zed?

SESELJA: Similar to the prime minister, Rod, it is disgusting. It's a slur, obviously, on our fine serving men and women for all those who have worn the uniform representing Australia. You've got to ask the question too not only obviously, should the Chinese government be apologizing, should it be taking this post down, but also I think Twitter has a responsibility—

HENSHAW: Yes

SESELJA: —as seen from time to time. They have, we've seen overseas and that sometimes being criticized for taking posts down. But there's a real test for Twitter now as to whether or not they're going to leave this kind of disinformation up on their site.

HENSHAW: Well, David, they have actually, you know, Twitter have been censoring, if you like, depending what language you use in the case of Donald Trump, when he puts up a tweet and they come and say, "no, no, no, we can't do that because it's misinformation or incorrect information or unsubstantiated". What do you reckon, David?

SMITH: Oh, look, I'm with Zed here. I think this is clearly an altered image. It's one that's been done for mischievous purposes. For some consistency Twitter should be definitely taking down this post and I guess, Rod, one of my reflections on yesterday is that this tweet, in a way, is attempting to mock the robustness of our democracy and I think the comments that you made earlier about the capability of Australia to actually look deep into our soul at times on difficult issues, I can contrast that with some other countries.

HENSHAW: What should Marise Payne be saying when—if she hasn't already spoken to the ambassador yet. I know what I'd be saying, but that wouldn't be diplomatic, obviously. In fact, I'd probably get thrown out of the building for saying it. But what do you reckon? What do you reckon, Zed? How strong can we go on this? How strong should Marise Payne go on this?

SESELJA: Well, she'll go very strong, of course, because we stand up for our interests and that's always been the case. And whilst the relationship will continue to be very, very important, at no stage should we ever back down from asserting Australia's sovereignty and our interests and obviously, it's a challenging time for the relationship, but it's certainly not helped by this kind of behaviour. And I'm sure Marise will express that very forcefully.

HENSHAW: Dave, when does the relationship become irreconcilable, like, as in a marriage?

SMITH: Rod, that's a pretty challenging statement and I think we shouldn't think of this in those terms. It's critical that we stand up for our values and assert our interests and understand that we're always going to have some differences with China, but we can't decouple, particularly in relation to our economic relationships. But that said, there's an important role for us to play in ensuring that we don't back down on issues that are important.

HENSHAW: Yeah, but backing down and making a strong statement I mean, it'd be like water off a duck's back in Beijing, wouldn't it?

SMITH: Well, I think this is obviously an attempt to bully the Australian government. I think the government has actually responded in a pretty appropriate manner.

HENSHAW: Okay, let's move on to another one. New figures show the number of Australians on a JobKeeper wage subsidy halved from September to October. Zed, is this a sign that the economy is recovering or do we still have a fair way to go?

SESELJA: Well, it's obviously very positive. We've seen around three point six million Australians who were on JobKeeper and that's come down dramatically and particularly from October to November and so I think we should be very pleased that less Australians are needing this support. It's actually been much needed support but to see hundreds of thousands less Australians accessing it, more Australians in jobs is something we should all be very, very pleased with. We're seeing the jobs market come back all over the country. Obviously, there's been a lag in Victoria and we would hope that situation would change in the next couple of months. But seeing so many more Australians back in work, seeing 80 per cent of those who lost their jobs back in work, I think is something we can be very, very pleased with. But there's still a lot of work to do.

HENSHAW: Dave, what do you reckon?

SMITH: Rod look, the JobKeeper numbers are definitely welcome, but they're not particularly surprising given the easing of restrictions and the tightening of the eligibility criteria for the payment. I guess what we shouldn't forget is that there's still one and half million Australian workers and their employers relying on JobKeeper payments and as Zed said, there's a fair way to go still. But, you know, it's a good result. We will be getting the national accounts figures a bit later this week and let's hope there's a rebound there as well.

HENSHAW: You know, David, or Zed rather, I think that David probably made a point where there is still a fair bit of risk. A lot of businesses will fall off the cliff when JobKeeper does end, isn't there?

SESELJA: Well, we've deliberately phased it down over a period of time so that the economic fundamentals can recover and we're seeing that and obviously most industries have come back. But we know that obviously international travel and some other industries are still severely affected. So but the phase down, I think, is working and the fact that the effective unemployment rate has come down dramatically shows that our policies are working. But as I say, we're not taking it for granted. We understand there are a lot of Australians still doing it tough and we're going to do everything we can to continue to support the economy and make sure people can get back into work.

HENSHAW: Okay, another support program, of course, is the government is extending the home builder program until the end of March, but at a reduced rate—I think it's gone from twenty-five to fifteen thousand dollars, correct me if I'm wrong, but, Dave, is that a fair thing, do you think? What's the Labor Party stand on this one?

SMITH: Rod, look, for months we've been calling on the government to extend and expand the home builder scheme. So this is a good to see some change like this. But look, it's really not enough. Even with the change yesterday, the number of homes built this financial year will be less than last year and that's why the main stakeholders have still been calling for a comprehensive housing stimulus that includes investing more in social housing.

HENSHAW: Zed?

SESELJA: Well, I think that's a real misuse of the numbers there, Dave, because what we've seen is a huge increase in approvals and there's a lag in these things. And so the home builder [scheme] has done exactly what we anticipated, which is to encourage a lot of Australians into the market. If you look at private sector dwelling approvals they're 20 per cent higher than they were a year ago. HIA new home sales data thirty one point six per cent higher in the three months to October 2020 when compared to the same time last year. So it's done exactly what we would have hoped, and that is to encourage a lot of Australians into the market. We're seeing a lot of Canberrans taking it up and I think that the industry is very pleased. And if you're a tradie working in the building industry or if you've got a family member in the building industry, as many thousands of Canberrans do, you would be seeing the benefits of this scheme.

HENSHAW: Yeah, we spoke to the Master Builders Association yesterday, they were generally positive about the whole thing. But I guess the big thing happens, what happens after the end of March, will the industry still need more support? And this is a moveable feast, you know, like the government seems to have said, okay, well, JobKeeper can be extended, JobSeeker, rah, rah, rah. But will this home builder scheme also be subject to review and perhaps continuity?

SESELJA: Well, Rod, what we've committed to is obviously to extending it, as was announced over the weekend and I think that will enable more people to access it. But part of the scheme is that it's not meant to be indefinite. It is meant to encourage people at a time when the economy was doing it very tough to make those decisions and we're seeing great take up.

HENSHAW: David, last word.

SMITH: Oh look Rod, at the same time, I think what we'd still like to see is ensuring that we actually address the challenge in social housing, which would be a way of actually getting lots more tradies back on the tools, but at the same time actually improve our national housing stock.

HENSHAW: Gentlemen, thank you so much, as always and we'll catch up again next Tuesday.

SESELJA: A pleasure, thanks very much, Rod, Thanks, Dave

SMITH: Thanks, Rod. Thanks, Zed.

HENSHAW: Thanks, David, thanks, Zed.

ENDS.